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  • 2003 World Championships!!!! -- Congratulations!!!!, 09:24:18 04/17/03 Thu
    I have been going to the Worlds for many many years now. Never before have a witnessed such
    political gerrymandering as I have witnessed this week. There is a growing cartel in Irish dancing,
    that sat down at the All Ireland this year and carefully plotted together a plan that would ensure
    everybody within the cartel would be kept happy. The adjudicators sat down on the panel with an
    agenda, knowing fine well who the World Champion was for this year, however to ensure this, they
    also threw those dancers that posed any threat whatsoever out of the picture, by scoring them with a
    grid score so low it dropped them out of the running.

    Honest and sincere adjudicators left their desk feeling stupid and incompetent as if they had missed
    the so called winner, but they had not. They had morals and integrity, that the cartel knew they
    could not manipulate.

    Every result so far has been manipulated and interfered with, most of the winners, and I mean most,
    have been undeserved, and those that lie in second place are the true winners. Unfortunately, the
    Commission have their hands tied and the schemers are well rooted within.

    Irish dancing is no longer a hobby, teachers rely on it as their income, hence it is now cut throat. It is
    expensive, children train three/four times a week with their teacher, the cost of costumes and travel
    to major events make this one very costly past time. Nobody asks for their child/student to be the
    next world champion, all they want is a fair crack at the whip to have a chance of recalling or maybe
    medalling.

    This is a message to all those involved, people see and know what's going on, and forums like this
    are ideal to let those people that keep the organization going- the parents and the children, know
    exactly.

    Irish dancing is doing well right now, this sort of behavior is only going to destroy what the
    organization has grown to become. We need an active governing body, repercussions, and
    sanctions for such blatant, unprofessional, and outlandish behavior. Instead of our redundant,
    powerless body which we have now.

    Congratulations to all of you though, I hope you are happy, because at the end of the day it is
    children you are dealing with, not each others egos.
     


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    Replies:

    • Amen!! My sentiments exactly. (NT) -- blatant politicing abounds time for it to stop, 09:38:34 04/17/03 Thu
    • ITS JUST A HOBBY ITS NOT A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH AND I THINK IF YOUR A PARENT YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELF -- ME, 09:45:10 04/17/03 Thu
    • It's more than a hobby, at least for the people attending the Major Comps!! (NT) -- --, 09:52:16 04/17/03 Thu
    • I agree, its more than a hobby, but even so shouldn't things be fair -- All we want is a level playing field., 10:01:08 04/17/03 Thu
    • OH SHUT UP!!!! Seriously, people like you make me want to be sick. Get over the "it's so political" excuses. Of couse teachers do this for a living - and good results at the World Championships do not equal good business. There are awful schools that have 1200 dancers - so a correlation does not necessarily exist between the two. -- how cynical can you be??, 10:02:29 04/17/03 Thu
      • and how niave can you be -- ignorance is bliss!!!, 10:12:45 04/17/03 Thu
      • I wasn't there ,but I heard they were dancing 3 at a time on stage.That is just plain wrong! While a large percent of these girls will not recall, they should atleast be able to be seen fairly. -- 2 at a time is more than enough!, 10:16:04 04/17/03 Thu
        • Oh please do stop this nonsense! It is standard procedure to dance three at a time in Ireland and England--they've been doing it that way for years! -- ID old timer, 13:19:30 04/17/03 Thu
        • They've been dancing 3 at a time for several years now. Ask yourself: would you rather dance three at a time, or at three in the morning? (NT) -- Hmm..., 13:20:52 04/17/03 Thu
    • Why don't you take up swimming or track and field? Although, Irish people found a way to cheat in swimming so.... -- michelle smith, 10:14:50 04/17/03 Thu
      • OOOOOOOOOOUCH!!!!! -- THAT HURTS!!!!, 12:17:41 04/17/03 Thu
    • So why don't the young TCRG's and newer AD's stand up and do something? While the parents would love to see some changes, it is clear that the ONLY people who can make change occur are the existing TC's. -- imho, 10:36:51 04/17/03 Thu
    • We all know there are somethings that come into play at the World Champs, but this sounds like sour grapes to me. Every year there are all these people like you with all the oppinions. Most of you were not even there to watch. you are not judges - what do you know. Except and move on (NT) -- stop crying, 11:10:45 04/17/03 Thu
    • Worlds 2003 -- Molly, 11:19:18 04/17/03 Thu
      • Hey, if it can happen at a prestigious event like the Olympics, then it's possible that it could happen anywhere. We just have to have faith. (NT) -- xxx, 11:27:37 04/17/03 Thu
    • I understand your disappointment, but what is really at stake? In major athletics, there are millions of dollars in endorsements, etc. Here it is just your name on a web site and bragging rights for the teacher (NT) -- It's a shame, but not the end of the world, 11:48:29 04/17/03 Thu
    • *!*What did we do...hire the ice skating judges? -- not a laughing matter, 12:01:35 04/17/03 Thu
      • I guess CLRG is going to have to start implementing a system like the new International Figure Skating system... (NT) -- ., 13:26:07 04/17/03 Thu
    • You knew before you went that the decisions were already made. Next job North American Championships.... -- many years same old stuff just getting worse..., 12:26:22 04/17/03 Thu
    • i am a dancer from a school with probably no political links and id just like 2 say i hope its not true bcos wen u win 4 political reasons dnt u feel guilty and like u dont deserve it? i no i would. just my opinion not critcism -- :O, 12:41:15 04/17/03 Thu
    • This is not sour grapes, I am the OP, who is an inactive Irish TCRG, and ADCRG, who was privy to the entire thing. -- no sour grapes., 13:00:58 04/17/03 Thu
      • So report it, officially -- 07734, 13:11:29 04/17/03 Thu
        • Good idea. You say you're an inactive AC/TC so it won't hurt your business. Put your money where your mouth is or get over it. -- Still think it's sour grapes, 15:18:20 04/17/03 Thu
        • Reporting anything is "political suicide" and everyone out there knows it. I'm also very involved with Irish dancing and won't state how on this board (it's nobody's business). I am sick and tired of the pre-determined results. We are not naive, nor ignorant. The favors are obvious, and there are people tracking results and watching. The numbers speak for themselves. -- anon, 15:35:45 04/17/03 Thu
    • OMG! Intrigue! Cultural espionage! A vast international conspiracy! A new axis of creative evil! Someone alert Oliver Stone - here's his next movie! -- Would you people listern to yourselves?, 15:48:16 04/17/03 Thu
      • Can I just ask if you are actually involved with ID you seem so negative that anything like this can happen I wonder if you are involved at all. The money that people are pouring into this hobby/sport each year entitles them to answers whether they support the above post or not. Perhaps an outside governing body wouldn't be a bad thing, then everyone would benefit . (NT) -- OMoB, 16:49:17 04/17/03 Thu
        • I'm very involved in ID, have been for more than 10 years. I'm also a MAID but these sorts of posts spring up in one form or another after every major competition, no matter who the favored group is perceived to have been that time around (more) -- 2Sarcastic4myowngood, 17:56:05 04/17/03 Thu
        • A governing body would be an excellent thing. There is a good old boys network in place here and for those who don't believe it, I suggest you ask your teachers. Any honest teacher will agree. All the op is asking is for a governing board. When Crogan brought this to eveyone's attention, his dd never did as well afterwards. People are afraid for their children, so it is difficult to come forward. If AC wanted everything to be above board, then they'd suggest something like this themselves. (NT) -- anon for good reason, 06:53:03 04/18/03 Fri
      • hahaha -- h, 22:30:16 04/18/03 Fri
    • It is kind of funny, but its so true, -- 3rd in the U11 boys - what?????, 15:57:16 04/17/03 Thu
      • You mean U12, right? I was wondering when that mysterious result would be addressed. (NT) -- That was the most blatant fix., 16:49:59 04/17/03 Thu
        • Yes, and to achieve this, some very good dancer had to be placed very low. It has happened for years. (NT) -- jill, 18:32:47 04/17/03 Thu
        • excuse me wot are u talkin about (NT) -- me, 23:09:12 04/17/03 Thu
    • I guess if you can't win w/o some inside pull, the next best thing dancers can aspire to is placing at the major comps. (NT) -- --, 16:52:39 04/17/03 Thu
    • shut it you bag of poisonous gas! -- sick of this, 17:47:14 04/17/03 Thu
      • Calm down please! It is frustrating but it's not doing you any good losing your temper. Take deep breaths please, I already coped with an asthma attack over the phone today i can't cope with hyperventilation as well. All opinions are relevant no matter how much we disagree with them, it wouldn't be a discussion otherwise. LOL (NT) -- (a rather chilled) OMoB, 18:02:15 04/17/03 Thu
    • Can't anybody govern this runaway train? Getting out of control... -- erindd, 18:28:26 04/17/03 Thu
      • X number of judges throw out the high and the low score might work. Yes, it happened here at Oireachtas. Can I prove it, NO. Doesn't seem like anyone has any ethics these days. It hurts when it hurts your child. That's the sad part of it. (NT) -- .., 21:40:59 04/17/03 Thu
        • More Judges at the higher levels -- anon, 08:01:07 04/18/03 Fri
          • It used to be done this way at Worlds, as recent as late late 90's. Don't know why they changed, but -- they should go back to it., 13:52:26 04/18/03 Fri
            • I Wish they would go back to a 5 Judge panel, harder to manipulate more folks or stack the deck! -- none, 01:20:58 04/19/03 Sat
    • *!*Where have you been? I retire from ID two years, I lived and Danced in Ireland and attend the World every year from U11-U21...this is NOTHING NEW, it's been going on for years. You may get used to it, it will never change. -- Anon, 21:56:02 04/17/03 Thu
    • *!*all i can say is WOW, what an eye-opener, after reading this whole thread- but which line of thought to believe? i never imagined irish dancing was this political. (NT) -- new to id, 03:47:09 04/18/03 Fri
      • THANK YOU GOD!!!! WELDONE FOR SAYING WHAT EVERYONE THINKS AND ARE TOO CHICKEN S*** TO SAY IT!!! I HATE THE PEOPLE WHO SAY " SHUT UP IRISH DANCING IS JUST A HOBBY AND THERE ARE NO POLITICS" HELLLOOO! OPEN YOUR EYES LIKE.** POLOTICS IN IRISH DANCING DOES HAPPEN AND THOSES OF U WHO CANNOT SEE THIS ARE PROBALLY ENVOLVED!* (NT) -- DANCER FORM IRELAND, 04:13:20 04/18/03 Fri
        • well i hate people that go on and on about things being fixed when their favourite dancer didn't place the way they wanted to. if you ask me the americans have been very lucky so far. some english and irish usaully come much higher up (NT) -- me, 11:56:32 04/18/03 Fri
    • Read inside: -- Casey, 05:04:41 04/18/03 Fri
      • What about the mom who had a room next to a judge at the Nationals two years ago and overheard a bunch of them discussing who the winner would be the next day. -- and that's the truth, 08:49:34 04/18/03 Fri
      • What about the mom who had a room next to a judge at the Nationals two years ago and overheard a bunch of them discussing who the winner would be the next day. (NT) -- and that's the truth, 08:50:57 04/18/03 Fri
      • I don't consider a TCRG father knowing the results before they are posted as "political". So long as this father wasn't being told his dancer would win the next day, then who cares if he knows 30 minutes before everyone else? I consider this a perk of the job. (NT) -- ., 10:27:49 04/18/03 Fri
        • Little "perks" leads to little cheating, etc. etc. (NT) -- .., 11:44:59 04/18/03 Fri
          • Being told that your dancer placed 30 minutes before is not cheating. Furthermore, little perks don't lead to cheating. Perks for a pilot is that he/she receives buddy passes for flying...that's not cheating. Perks of management are that you know things before the rest of the troop knows. I would consider this in the same category. (NT) -- It's not always cheating....it's information, that's all., 13:14:54 04/18/03 Fri
    • How dare some of these ER schools complain of politics. They are just as guilty of the same shenanigans! (NT) -- how does it feel?, 05:32:14 04/18/03 Fri
      • For the most part, this is happening with the TOP placers, not others. It is shifting results between the top several children. WRONG! That is is happening, but is it effecting most of the North Americans - NO! If I were the Irish I'd be spittin' mad over another major competition of predictible results. You know why North Americans rarely win a world title? BECAUSE the cartel won't let them. YOU WILL NEVER have a chance at a world title, and for the few americans who have it is just tossing in a win every few years to keep North America happy. (NT) -- face the facts, 06:22:34 04/18/03 Fri
        • This is pitiful. Take th NA nationals, ds from europe often win when they go there (playing away from home). Then these same drs win the all irelands or the worlds its not a fix. I have no doubt there are a few political Judges, you can tell them - their marks go th the same school each time regardless of the dancer. I was at the worlds and certainly noticed less of it. Some of the major culprits werent judging for a start, but let me tell you the British and Irish are also effected by it. The top ten in each group dont varie a whole lot ,maybe they are the best ten, not the fixed 10 (NT) -- bridei, 14:52:46 04/18/03 Fri
    • What good does it do to critisize the ID world? We go every year and hope for the best. Sometimes we are happy, sometimes not. For the most part thought, my dds placings over the past 4 years have been reflective of her dancing. I still tend to trust the judges. -- you have sour grapes, 06:52:35 04/18/03 Fri
      • You might not feel your dd is effected by this, but the politics happen. Not only at the All-Irelands and Worlds, but everywhere down to local competitions. It is only magnified at the Worlds, All-Irelands, and North Americans. People are frustrated by a system that isn't changing. The 5 panel system, would be a vast improvement with the dropping of the high/low. I believe the US Eastern Region used it this year. -- lets try to look for solutions, 07:00:32 04/18/03 Fri
        • Don't hold your breath. The powers that be were very unhappy after this years ER O's results. It was the most A-political O's I've ever seen, and while some where surprised by the results I was not. BTW they were so unhappy they will not be dropping the high and low next year. -- Politics reigns, 12:06:30 04/18/03 Fri
      • When yu have a dancer in the top 2 or 3 in National and world competetition, you will know what we mean. most do not expect this kind of placement so they are not aware of what it is like at the top. Someone told me ds: you have to be that much better than the Irish/Eng. to win/ -- jk, 07:04:40 04/18/03 Fri
    • Where did the OP go? If you are still in this discussion, could you identify yourself as the OP? It would be helpful for those of us out here trying to follow your train of thought. -- please, 07:02:08 04/18/03 Fri
      • TC's and AD's will never come forward and complain. Thats why we use public forums as such to let the parents who can make a change force them to change -- op, 08:24:50 04/18/03 Fri
        • HOLD ON This is not an English/Irish v American dancers this is a select few people who continually manipulate results. Americans have also been given a helping hand this year too. -- email CLRG and report what u know see, 08:30:03 04/18/03 Fri
          • Agreed. This is not an Irish/English vs North American issue - it really is an issue about who is in power. Let this be warning to those who are in these positions that the little people (ie., your customers) are watching what you are going to do about this. -- make it fair and above board and this won't keep coming up, 09:58:07 04/18/03 Fri
            • That's why it is IMPORTANT that the WORLDS not be held in IRELAND every year. We don't have the OLYMPICS in Greece every year! The Olympics are held all over the world for the same reasons the "Home Country has the Advantage". We shouldn't be going back to Ireland for the Worlds in 2004 there are many other places where this event could be held. (NT) -- Worlds ID - don't want it known as a cheating exercise, 11:33:41 04/18/03 Fri
              • who is the cartel (NT) -- any ideas???, 13:15:57 04/18/03 Fri
                • Its a longstanding group of old cronies who work together to protect their status by way of pressuring one another.. happens in all sports and the higher the level the more the favors (NT) -- jd, 13:22:13 04/18/03 Fri
                  • Yes, we understand that, but who are they? (NT) -- how about some names, 16:00:16 04/18/03 Fri
            • AMERICA VS. EUROPE? LOOK AT THE RESULTS!!! -- idtiredmom, 19:18:48 04/18/03 Fri
    • So, do you think that an american dancer working hard to do well at Worlds will ever place well? By the way it sounds, it's a huge longshot for an American to be a World placer. I know this is speculation, but what is your honest opinion to those that "know the ropes". (NT) -- ., 13:20:51 04/18/03 Fri
      • That is not the case, if the TC is politically connected they will do fine. (NT) -- it does not matter where you are from, 13:31:33 04/18/03 Fri
        • So, the key is knowing if your TCRG is connected. I am realizing that just as in gymastics...the coach matters equally as much as the talent of the athlete. I don't see this as completely bad because it keeps those coaches on their toes in order to have a good reputation, but it can open the door for some shady dealings. (NT) -- Good thing this sport is fun too!, 13:50:17 04/18/03 Fri
          • that is not the key. the key is to stop the unprofessional behaviour of those retarded teachers and adjudicators. What if we exposed the cartel on the board, would that make a difference. (NT) -- would not do any harm, 14:24:27 04/18/03 Fri
    • Maybe we should do an experiment: Have a top NA dancer become an exchange student in Ireland and enroll them in a 'connected' school. See if they place then. Of course, then some one would say, 'but they have a better teacher now'. (NT) -- x, 14:32:37 04/18/03 Fri
    • I have major problems with this cartel idea. In the girls younger age groups the winners came from relatively young schools. The top three in the youngest three groups with one or two exceptions certainly dont come from long established schools. I canot speak for the boys competitions but I have gone through results on the net for other Majors and the same names keep comming out in the top five. Maybe these are the best dancers. -- Bridie, 14:32:52 04/18/03 Fri
      • We are only concerned with the top five, but the winners did not deserve to win, if you watched the comp you would know, and some do have young teachers, and one young esp. was put in her place this week -- as she was getting too big., 14:35:44 04/18/03 Fri
      • Sorry but the winner in the u11 girls is from a long established school i.e. Anthony Costello in Limerick, she did deserve to win as she danced the best on the day, I think some of the lower places as well as some non recallers where caught up in this 'conspiracy' too!!! (NT) -- IMHO, 15:15:56 04/18/03 Fri
        • i'll think you'll find the girl who got second should have got that one. (NT) -- cartel again, 16:28:02 04/18/03 Fri
          • I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one, personally i like the top 3 dancers in this age group unfortunately the gal who came 3rd didn't dance how we all know she can, the girl who won was my winner and that is my subjective opinion not influenced by any other body. You have yours too and I won't argue with you we just think a little differently. (NT) -- IMHO, 16:38:49 04/18/03 Fri
            • maybe so, but powerful teacher (NT) -- don't you agree, 18:36:47 04/18/03 Fri
              • Oh no doubt about the power of the teach, but the child was a contender anyway and is an amazing dancer I had her and the 3rd place child all along until the comp. Then when the other gal didn't dance to form had the winner. I'm not from any of these schools so have no axe to grind. (NT) -- IMHO, 03:12:52 04/19/03 Sat
    • Have just returned from todays session at the worlds the 17-18 girls what a joke. On the day I have to say Michelle Lawrence was my preference for first and she did win then later on I had a quick look at the marks she scored 2 100s and a 15 for her Heavy Round. There is something very nasty going on in the Irish Dancing world (NT) -- Taken from /86171/, 15:31:33 04/18/03 Fri
      • It's always THE KIDS THAT SUFFER! ID is messed up. Get Worlds out of Ireland! (NT) -- ddlady, 18:40:10 04/18/03 Fri
        • WHAT DO WE GET OUT OF ID if we can't even have a fair chance? (more) -- ddlady, 19:01:31 04/18/03 Fri
    • A transfer to my school came from a USA cartel school and placed two years ago, under suspension last year, this year didn't even recall. -- hmmmmmmmmmmm, 18:08:49 04/18/03 Fri
      • ***placed while at the USA cartel school**** -- *, 18:11:09 04/18/03 Fri
      • hmmm 2 years ago the worlds were cancelled hmmm -- z, 18:23:02 04/18/03 Fri
        • sorry, mean 2 World's ago-Belfast. -- hmmmmmmm, 18:34:45 04/18/03 Fri
      • What do you mean a USA Cartel student went to a school in England/Ireland and did not do as well under the "overseas Cartal Plan" --Please explain! -- jd, 18:41:23 04/18/03 Fri
        • I know who that dancer is. It's quite unfortunate but I have to say I figured that would happen. (NT) -- ??, 20:29:47 04/18/03 Fri
          • I also think that the u11 girls champion deserved it but her teacher is a VERY powerful man, his school is practically joined up with another schhol from Co.Cork and he judged one of that schools pupils at a Major a few years back and gave her 100 when she didnt deserve it. holding the worlds in a different country will not make a difference, THERE IS NO WAY OF STOPPING THIS!!! (NT) -- ahhhh!!!, 03:58:09 04/19/03 Sat
            • look its been going on for many years. i think a bunch of teachers should just refuse to enter their pupils in these Major Championships, that way there is a huge money loss and then something might be done. or else a bunch of teachers should lodge an official complaint. Already, Anne Whealan, a talented teacher from Munster, has stopped her pupils from competing in open championships because of this. It is really disheartening for those who go to a fair school, work their asses off, dance brilliant on the day and yet get nothing!! (NT) -- "IRISH DANCERS GO ON STRIKE", 04:10:48 04/19/03 Sat